70. C-Section Recovery and Pelvic Floor Physical Therapy With Dr. Sabrina Thorpe

Whether you're currently recovering from a C-section or preparing for one, this episode with Dr. Sabrina Thorpe, will help answer your biggest questions, from what to expect physically to how physical therapy can play a crucial role in your recovery. 

In this episode, you can expect:

• What are the most common physical challenges during c-section recovery…
• When should you start pelvic floor physical therapy after a c-section…
• What signs indicate pelvic floor physical therapy might be helpful for you… 
• What role does physical therapy play in mental and emotional recovery post-c-section…
• … and much more!

C-section recovery is a journey that can benefit greatly from the guidance of a skilled physical therapist. Dr. Sabrina Thorpe offers insightful advice on how to navigate the physical challenges, debunks common misconceptions, and highlights how pelvic floor physical therapy can play a significant role in both physical and emotional healing. 

If you're interested in learning more about Dr. Thorpe and her work, make sure to connect with her through Foundation Physical Therapy for expert support on your recovery journey. Tune in to get the knowledge and support you need for a healthy, empowered recovery!

Meet Sabrina

https://www.foundationptwi.com/ 

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👋 WHO AM I?

Welcome, friends! I am Beth, a certified nurse midwife, doula, and childbirth educator. My philosophy is rooted in autonomy, informed decision making, and positive mindset to help expecting parents plan for a beautiful, stress-free hospital birth. I am here to provide value to YOU through tips and practical advice, either to guide you through pregnancy or to help you prepare for childbirth, postpartum and beyond. There’s no fluff here - only info that adds to your positive experience and saves you stress and uncertainty.

Transcript

 Welcome back to episode 70 of Your Birth Bestie podcast. Today I'm sharing an interview with Dr. Sabrina Thorpe, a mom and baby physical therapist and owner of Foundation Physical Therapy. Today we are going to be talking about C section recovery, what to expect, and how important physical therapy is during recovery.

But also Sabrina shares how physical therapy can help it. during pregnancy as well, not just after you give birth. At Foundation Physical Therapy, moms and babies build foundational strength and movement patterns to eliminate pain and problems typically associated with motherhood and infancy. And treatment sessions are individualized to each mom and baby to help you feel and move better fast. 

Hey there, I'm Beth Connors, a midwife and mom of two, but also your birth bestie. In this podcast, we'll dive deep into everything you need to feel confident, prepared, and in control from baby bump to delivery room, from practical tips to personal stories. We'll cover it all so you know exactly what to expect every step of the way.

Let's get into it.  I am Dr. Sabrina Thorpe. I am a physical therapist in the Waukesha area of southeast Wisconsin, and I am a mom and baby physical therapist. Um, I own Foundation Physical Therapy. Um, I have both a brick and mortar practice, and I do some mobile visits as well. So going to see moms and babies.

Well, thank you so much for being here. And I'm so excited to talk about c section recovery, kind of what to expect because there's just not enough information around about that. So, um, I would love to hear about your experience, either personally, if you're comfortable sharing or, you know, professionally, what you see.

What you've seen, um, about C section recovery and just in general, I guess. So I have three kids and I've had two vaginal births, one induction, one a natural undisturbed home birth, and then one was a C section. Um, so my C section was because I had a complete previa, which is where the placenta completely covers cervical opening.

So. There's really no way for a baby to get out without some catastrophic side effects, um, for both you and baby. So my C section happened to be scheduled. Um, it was ultimately unwanted, uh, but it was, it was needed, right? So mine was planned. So keeping that in mind, that's very different from emergencies and going through labor and then having a C section, but either way, C sections are, are a challenge.

What would you say, and I mean you have background as well, obviously as a physical therapist, that what do you see as the most challenging part of that recovery phase that maybe women aren't totally, completely prepared for? Honestly, it's the little things that we take for granted every day. Being able to get out of a bed.

Being able to stand up from a chair, walk down the hall to the bathroom, get off the toilet, get in the shower. It's all of those very simple tasks that can become a challenge because of the fact that you have been cut open your abs. They aren't cut per se, they don't cut the muscles in the surgery, but it is still disrupted because they have to get through them and pull them to the side to get down to the uterus.

And so that, plus not having a baby in there anymore to create some pressure back really can mess with your stability and your ability to just get from point A to point B. And it's incredibly hard to get out of a bed. Like you don't realize how strong you have to be to actually move around in the horizontal  So that's something I think  I knew it going in, but actually experiencing it is a totally different ballgame.

Yeah. Um, And  yeah, I think if women are not prepared and they haven't learned how to compensate for that, that, that can really be blindsiding. Yeah, it's like once you don't have that ability anymore, you like so much more appreciate when you did. Um, yes. Even now being like 34 weeks pregnant, like healthy pregnancy, it's like, okay, yeah, getting out of bed is challenging.

Just like, you can't, There's nowhere to go. Like there's just certain things that you just don't realize until all of a sudden one day it's shoot, you know, there's different ways we have to accommodate different movements. So how long was your recovery, I guess, until you started to feel a little bit, a little bit better, even,  um, Maybe like those first two weeks were really, really hard.

And then I was able to like go for short walks. They didn't have to use an abdominal binder anymore. Um, I chose to use an abdominal binder because otherwise I wouldn't have moved at all. Then I would say by six weeks, because I had been on activity restrictions. Prior to the C section because you will be on activity restrictions after, um, with like, like a 10 pound weight lifting restriction and things like that.

Your, your surgeon tells you exactly what those are, but I was chomping at the bit to get back to things. So I would say it like six weeks, I actually felt okay, like six to eight. And ready to start doing a little bit more. So kind of, kind of on par with like a vaginal birth. It's different though, right?

Like they're both hard and they both take time. Um, yeah, it's just more complex when you have that surgical incision and all the other things that come with it with pain management. And if you don't have good pain management, then you can't move. And all of those things that come along with just, you know, yeah, having a major surgery that I think.

People don't always, you know, they're not prepared for because c sections are so common, whether it's elective or emergent, that we just feel like You're going to bounce back and everything's going to be okay. It's just like any other surgery, but it really is a different kind of surgery because you have a newborn and you are postpartum and there's the hormonal shift, there's everything else going on that contributes to the recovery process as well.

Yeah. Cause not everybody has, you know, support after a C section, um, or I have to go back to work in a certain amount of time and it's just a lot to adjust to.  It really is. It really is. And it's,  it always kind of boggles the mind. So I have done some therapy, like in the hospitals, on the hospital floor.

Right. When we call that the acute care setting and we always like.  Almost 100 percent of the time got referrals from surgeons for any sort of abdominal surgery, especially major ones where like people are open and  yet C sections, we are not sending physical therapy in in the hospital to teach people how to move. 

Which,  I don't know how to fix that. I, I hear some hospitals in the area are trying, um, but it's a slow process and I think it's, it's worth moms being aware of these struggles that you will likely have ahead of time because you can go see a therapist before you even have your C section, right? You can go when you're pregnant.

Go see a physical therapist and learn the techniques on how to move and you can bring your partner with you to teach that your partner how to help you as well. Because there may be times where you really can't do it with all the techniques in the world. You may still need somebody to help you. And having somebody who knows how to help you can be incredibly beneficial.

Yeah, I think that's important just for people to know that physical therapy in the hospital and before is an option. My husband works at ProHealth Waukesha Memorial and they are implementing, you know, that process of seeing moms with, you know, more severe tearing and then also C sections. But that doesn't mean that every Patient gets that standard.

It has to sometimes be, you know, advocated for from the patient's perspective too. So, um, if moms kind of want that care and would benefit from that, then they have to also know that it's available and then speak up. So, yes. And you really have to speak up because I asked, I asked for a Walker after my C section, I was laughed at like, yeah.

So just. And again, that's something, and maybe talking to your OBGYN before you even go in, if you know you're going to have a C section or there's, you understand that there's the potential to have one, maybe talking with them ahead of time to see if they're okay with ordering physical therapy, even though it's not the standard, and just be prepared for like the deer in the headlights look from them and, Um, but for any, any delivery to really  public floor physical therapy is important for everybody that that could be even like a thing that it should be added to like those initial questions that you ask your provider when you're trying to find somebody and when you're trying to find a place to deliver, you know, are you supportive of not only like physiologic birth if that's something people are interested in, but also, okay, what is the postpartum look like?

Or should I be doing physical therapy before? Or, you know, how to prevent these things and then make that recovery easier because I'm not a physical therapist, but I can imagine that if you do work ahead of time, um, you know, not only preparing, but also physically that it can make it easier later on. So yes, prehab is.

It's important. And it, and it's really, it's really worth its weight in gold. I mean, if we can prevent a problem from happening or start off in a better spot, right? The stronger we are, the more flexible we are, the more connected we are with our body, the easier the recovery is. afterward, right? Getting that back is so much, so much smoother because you already had it in the first place versus starting from, let's say not being able to connect with our pelvic floor, not being able to connect with our core.

And now we've done a major surgery or we've had major tearing.  And now we also want to try to connect. It just, it's starting from, from zero versus, you know, starting with like one step ahead. So.  Yeah. As far as the timeline that people can look at physical therapy after delivery, is there a recommendation, um, let's say we can be seen in the hospital, is there like a follow up schedule that is recommended?

Um, there really isn't like a true standard. I mean, I, I think we should be seeing moms in the hospital, um, and then following up right away. Okay. But what the. The typical recommendation is for like pelvic floor therapy in general is to have a visit, maybe like three weeks postpartum. Um, a lot of moms like to wait until they're done bleeding or that kind of, they have their checkup with their OB because they think they need the referral from the OB, which if you're in Wisconsin, you don't.

So it's kind of, it's kind of up to you. But I think the standard for,  Like across the board is usually around two to three weeks postpartum, um, is when women are typically starting. So you've had that time to rest initial healing, and then we can start to get into things. But there really isn't a reason not to start earlier if you wanted to.

Yeah, there's so much just hearing from my husband, like there's so much gentle like breath work that can be done like as a midwife when I was in the hospital, like there was a few different things that I could suggest on, you know, my level of, you know, my role in the hospital, but,  you know, that that initial visit would be helpful in the hospital while they're patient and then kind of giving you those very gentle, you know, Breathing techniques and different, you know, pelvic tilt or contract, like different things, um, to just start activating the core, I think will get you to those two to three weeks.

And then, okay, once you start to feel a little bit better and your pain is managed and you're a little bit healed, then it's like, okay, we'll still do gentle things, but, um, yeah, I think that's helpful to know. Yeah. And the other thing too, is.  And this is vaginal or cesarean birth. If you are moving weird because things are not working properly, that can cause more problems down the line too.

So it's not only just, Oh, we have to activate it. So we have to activate and we need to look at how we're moving properly. You know, if you're. And we see this a lot like with the nursing, right, if we are all kind of hunched over, crunched in, slouching in the chair, you're looking at back pain. I mean, for, for months after that, if you don't fix it.

And if so, if we can start to fix those things right away and You know, not that there needs to be a lot of pressure, but just some little tidbits and, and not golden nuggets of how to have better posture as you are nursing, as you're walking, even baby wearing, like a lot of moms use wraps and slings and things, right?

Like those, those things done improperly can be detrimental. Um, so having, having early, early eyes on you to teach you and just make sure that things look good can be, can be really valuable. Yeah, I think that too with, um, like nursing, like if you're going to do that for a long time, it's not just like once a day or once a week, it's like 12 times per day.

And then, you know, and then you're wearing your baby for maybe six months. Um, so it's like something that it just like that compound effect that. I remember with my second, I don't remember as much as my first, but with my second, she was nervous. I, I breastfed her and then I wore her like all the time.

Cause I had another one running around. I didn't really have the choice. And it was just like, I felt myself like declining slowly, which isn't funny, but like, you know, it's hard to, you know, prioritize that self care and  those exercises, but it really is something that I think that also speaks to doing things beforehand because you have habits in place and you know, stuff like that is important to make that experience a little bit easier. 

Yeah, because it's not like you're going to give somebody a thousand exercises to do and like a whole two hour a day workout program. Like, you know, it's realistic when you are a public floor physical therapist and,  um, you have kids of your own and you've experienced this yourself. Like you, you know, it's doable.

Yes. Yes. If your therapist is giving you more than like three, maybe four exercises, it's probably too many and they don't get it.  Like, you know, like we need to prioritize as therapists and we should be like three is. Three, I know is my limit as a mom. Like if I have more than three, I'm not getting done.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's like nice for families to know too, that just because, you know, you're signing up for physical therapy, it's, it's just, it's not like you're an athlete. I think that's the only time before I had kids I did physical therapy was like due to athletic injuries and you're doing, you know, all of these crazy things.

Um, and that's what I would always compare it to. And I'm like, I don't have time for that, but I feel like it's so much different than that. It's, you know, you're a mom.  recovering, the expectations are a little bit different and more doable and gentler. It's not like this  crazy plan. No, no, no, no. And it's often stuff that you can do with your kids around.

You might, I mean, you might have kids crawling on you, right? If you're doing stuff on the floor, but like you can do it sometimes while you're nursing, you can do it. throughout your day, right? Just practicing movements, right? If we're working on squats, you can practice that picking up a laundry basket, picking up your kid, right?

It doesn't have to be like a dedicated chunk of time that you have to set aside and find, right? It can just be worked in throughout your day. Yeah, I love the integration part because we're always multitasking. So just throw in some physical therapy exercises as you're like unloading the dishwasher or something. 

Exactly. I think about that sometimes and like tighten the core. Yep. Yep. Oh, I do all the time. Oh my goodness. Um, as far as when moms should maybe seek out physical therapy, let's say they didn't have like a traumatic birth experience in terms of like physically c section, tearing, Is there certain symptoms or?

you know, things that mom should look out for. Yeah. So there's, I mean, there's lots of things. So it depends on kind of what's going on. So a lot of very common complaints after we'll just go with like regular, let's just say vaginal birth will be just pain, right? Pelvic pain, perineal pain, especially if there was tearing.

Okay. That's, that's a sign you need to get, you need to get evaluated. Um, if you are leaking urine, So when you cough, sneeze, run, if you're trying to get back to activity, picking up your kids. If you're leaking and don't have full control over when your urine comes out, time to get in to see a therapist.

Um, if you're constipated, also time to get in to see a therapist, especially if you've dotted your I's and crossed your T's, you know, you're eating enough fiber, drinking enough water, getting enough, um, like salt, magnesium, like all that kind of stuff, all the things that make the bowels go. If you are still constipated, it's time to go see a PT.

And then persistent back or hip pain that really doesn't like respond to stretching or maybe stretching makes it feel better a little bit and exercise makes it feel better a little bit but then it just comes back.  So persistent back pain can be actually a pelvic floor issue, and that could be like upper back pain, lower back pain,  either one. 

When it comes to C section recovery specifically, um, if you are having like pain in the scar or the scar just kind of feels weird, it feels really tight, you notice you're starting to get what we call the C section shelf where it's like, like it's bound down and kind of it makes like an indent, you're going to want to go see a therapist.

Um, if you are having. Urgency and frequency of urination. So like you just went to the bathroom and you feel like you got to go again. And it's like that all day. time to get in to see a therapist. And if you have UTI type symptoms, so like you have some burning and some discomfort and it constantly feels like you have to go and you've been tested, your tests are negative, you've done all the antibiotics and it just keeps coming back, that is often not a UTI.

It is a pelvic floor issue. Um, and particularly after C section, because the scar is usually right around that bladder region, Sometimes scars can adhere to the bladder and cause some irritation and give you some of those irritating. I have to pee Feelings and we can do we can do stuff about that. Um, we can release the scars Um, we can help mobilize the bladder, make sure that the muscles are relaxed and not irritating your urethra, which is the tube through which you pee from.

Um, so those are some big signs. Oh, and also I should mention heaviness in the pelvic floor. So like if you're having a sensation of just things are heavy or kind of bulging, um, those can be kind of early prolapse signs. So we want to be making sure that we are getting into see a therapist, um, to make sure we are managing pressure in our abdomen properly.

So those are some of the biggies. I mean, there's, there's tons of other reasons that you could decide to see a therapist, but I would say those are the big reasons. Yeah, there's so many other things too that  I never like would have thought of that physical therapy could help with, you know, like, like constipation comes to mind, like people don't normally think of those things.

I'd rather just take, you know, maybe a long term medication, um, to help, you know, it's like there's other root causes that, you know, alternative,  um, therapies can help with, which is just so interesting. And then especially after a C section, a lot of times moms, um, Don't have the expectations of that. They will have still have vaginal bleeding or they might still have symptoms that they made it might have associated with,  um, a vaginal delivery only.

So having those expectations to beforehand and then, you know, knowing those signs to look for and be like, No, this is due to your, you know, your, your C section, the surgery that you had, the baby that you carried for nine months. There's so much that goes on in the body that yeah, yeah, that needs to be addressed if these things come up.

So, yeah. And that's probably one of the biggest myths about C sections in general is that, Oh, I had a C section. My pelvic floor is fine. Yeah. And nothing could be farther from the truth because it's not, I mean, not that birth, like a vaginal birth doesn't. You know, impact the pelvic floor, but pregnancy itself impacts the pelvic floor because you are putting such a high demand on the pelvic floor to hold up all the extra weight.

I mean, they're, they're not big muscles, you know, they're teeny tiny and they're holding up all of your organs, plus all the extra amniotic fluid, the weight of the baby, the placenta. That's a lot of extra weight for teeny tiny muscles to hold up, and then your pelvis is shifting and it's trying to hold on for dear life.

Um, so just because you have a c section does not mean you are sparing your vagina. And even just before people have their babies is just knowing that, yeah, that that's a possibility and that there's people to help and they don't have to have these symptoms, like, like you said, I'm sure you hear all the time about, Urinary incontinence and people just kind of thinking that's normal when you have babies and it's very common, but it's like not something that we have to accept.

And that's like, you know, something that I just, I'm passionate about. It's just like a midwife, like in your field, you're just like, come on. Yes.  Common does not equal normal. Common does not equal normal. Yeah. So many things are common and we're told they're normal, but it's. It is never normal to not control when you pee.

It is not normal to not control when you poop. Like if you want to poop and you can't, that is you not being able to control when you poop. Right? Um, or, or vice versa. I mean, you can have fecal or stool or poop incontinence too. Um, so yeah, there's, um, yeah.  It's common, it's not equal. Back pain, it's not normal.

Yes. I don't care what they say. Me, okay, maybe in those first, like, two to six weeks postpartum, like, okay, I guess we could call it normal because things are healing, but after that, things should be coming together. Right? Like, Yeah. We should be seeing a resolution of those, of those  signs and symptoms.

Yeah. And just knowing that there is like people out there to help with those things that do feel like they can, you know, change your whole experience of, you know, childbirth and motherhood and just how you feel day to day, I think hopefully it gives people hope that there is somebody out there to help them because if you're, you know, constantly having incontinence issues and somebody tells you that's normal, it's like, well, I don't know.

That's going to be the rest of my life. And I'm like, you know, my twenties or something, um, thirties, like that's a lot to handle. And like mentally, that's a lot to go through. Um, so yeah, it takes time, but  absolutely. Well, and we're finding too, that.  In, in like the pelvic rehab space, if you can commit to like 12 weeks of consistently coming in weekly for 12 weeks, you can get pretty much a good, like a pretty darn good resolution of leakage symptoms, pelvic pain symptoms.

Um, but the big thing is consistency, right? And committing to starting in the first place, right? Yeah, totally. Um, but I mean, that's, that's three months. You know, it's not, it's not forever. You know, you're not going to be in therapy forever  and you could avoid medication, you could avoid  lengthy surgical recovery down the line, right?

Expensive surgical recovery, surgery and recovery. Um, so, you know, it's, it's finding, finding that within you to like commit to it and realize it's not forever.  And you could be in a much better place, you know, just a couple of months. Yeah, totally. That's not that long at all. I didn't even like, I think it would be a long, long time. 

Nope. Nope. I mean, and that's not to say that everything would be perfect, but usually by the end of a 12 month, 12 months. Oh my gosh, 12 weeks. 12 weeks. Plan of care. I mean, people's problems are usually pretty well, pretty well solved if you can stick with it.  No, it's awesome to have those kinds of results and just knowing that that, like, even if you just see even small improvement, like, right, you're going in the right direction.

So that helps a lot. And knowing that it just would get better from there is, you know, great. Very nice to think about. Um, as far as mom's getting back to physical activity, I know you said like two weeks, there's usually like a weight limit, um, or restriction, um, as far as like activity and exercise in that early postpartum period after you have a C section, is there kind of any advice or things that maybe restrictions people shouldn't think about doing, or what is your take there?

Cause you know, bounce back culture. And  I do, it's all a thing. Um, well, first and foremost, walking is huge. Um, so that should be one of the first things on your mind is getting back to walking. We need the blood flow. We need to keep moving. We need fluid pumping and moving so everything can heal. So that is, that is a biggie with C section recovery in those early weeks. 

The next thing is really working on breath and reconnecting to the core and the pelvic floor, just making sure that everything is working properly. Um, I know right now there's like this big push for like, don't do Kegels and don't do them ever.  There's a time and a place for them. And sometimes that time is pretty hard.

Postpartum, just making sure that you can connect to your pelvic floor and your pelvic floor and your lower abdominals are reflexively connected. So, if we are having a hard time just trying to contract the abdominals with breath work and we can do some forced exhales, we can do shh, shh, shh, and ha, ha, ha breaths to try to get, the core online.

And if it's not, sometimes we have to bring in our pelvic floor to  reflexively kick that in. So we are trying to reconnect to the abdominals to make sure that they are firing and starting to give our, particularly our spine, some support. Um, we also can be working on rib mobility during that time. So when we are pregnant, Everything gets shoved up and out to make room for the baby.

And so our rib cage also gets shoved out to the side.  And sometimes we need a little bit of love to the ribs to get them to come back down. Um, so, and that, that can be just very gentle, very gentle breathing in, in some postures and with some props that facilitate some expansion through the ribs. Um,  So those are, those are the big things that I like to do.

And then as the scar is healing, we can also start to work on the scar itself to make sure that that is not binding down. And a lot of women end up with a really thick band across their abdomen of numbness or like weird sensation, whether that's lack of sensation or hypersensation, like it feels too sensitive.

Um, we can start working on desensitizing that scar area so that. It feels a little bit more normal. Um, so you do have to look at your scar. You do have to touch it. I know so many women are like, I don't want anything to do with it. And I was that way. I had to have my husband look at it. Cause I was like, it doesn't feel right.

Cause it was numb. I mean, I had a band. It was probably like three or four inches thick. Just that was completely numb when I first came home. And I was like, you have to look at it. Cause I'm grossed out. I can't do it.  You, you will have to get to that point where you look at your scar and start to  kind of work with it, right?

Um, so that's another thing that we can do in those early weeks, not, and right after surgery, you let it heal, right? And we work around the scar to mobilize. And then once we've really got a nice scar laid down and everything's healed and closed, then we can start working directly on the scar. So there's lots to be done in the first six or so weeks.

Yeah. And I don't know if there's a timeframe, I guess, speaking of like the scar, um, adhesion and things that happen. Is there like a time from when it's, you know, not going to help if like, is it too late at any point to be,  yeah. Cause I've heard of moms, like even like years later,  like going to physical therapy or there's doing all sorts.

I don't know the exact things that that are going on, but that they have all these other options for, you know, getting rid of that scar tissue and people don't even know that's possible. So I think that's nice. Yeah, so any scar, any scar, you can be, it's never too late. I mean, and even just like from  like an aesthetic standpoint, like if you have a scar and this goes again for any deep scarring, like you can use silicone scar sheets on them for healing.

Um, There, and there are a lot of scar mobilization techniques. We can use your hands, you can use myofascial cups. Um, I know some people even do dry needling to scars,  which I do not do. Cause I don't like needles in the first place, but I mean, it's an option, especially if you are really feeling like I've tried everything and like nothing's working, the scar is super thick because there are some people who lay down.

Quite a bit of really thick scar tissue and everybody's, that's just kind of based on your genetics, how that plays out. But, um, just so you know, it is an option. Um, if you can find someone who does dry needling and is comfortable dry needling scars, it is an option. So.  Yeah, I think it's just helpful for families to know what is out there, the possibilities that they're, you know, sometimes you hear one thing in like a podcast or something, or you see something all of a sudden you're like, wait, I need to look that up now.

And I need to see if that's something available to me and if that would apply and you get on the rabbit hole of that. So even just like mentioning things and being more, um, yeah, forward with information for pregnant moms, I think it's just so helpful for them to know their options. Absolutely.  If we could just kind of wrap this up with sharing where listeners can find you, how to connect with you if they're interested in seeking help with you. 

Yeah. So, um, I am most active over on Instagram at foundation. pt. wi. Um, I also have a Facebook. at Foundation Physical Therapy, and I have a website, FoundationPTWI. com if you are local to the Waukesha County area and you wanted to schedule a session.  Thank you so much for tuning in today. I feel like the biggest takeaway for me, not having personal experience recovering from a c section, but I have helped many moms navigate this experience and have witnessed how challenging this process can be. 

Knowing that there are resources before and after you have your baby to help make delivery easier and prepare you for recovery and really establish that long term support to maintain a fully functional body that you can actually feel really good in. There are so many changes that happen to your body in pregnancy, postpartum,  and just in motherhood in general.

And Sabrina is a really great resource for all of these things. If you are within southeastern Wisconsin and are interested in connecting with Sabrina, please see the show notes for all of those details. Thank you so much again for being here and I will see you next time. Bye everyone.